I have it on my scalp too. : http://www.amazon.com/OGX-Shampoo-Quenched-Mineral-Moisture/dp/B00HVKBDCQ. It feels like I have to slather on coating after coating of lotion in the morning that all gets stiff and unforgiving later in the day. I'd wash it like usual and it'll flake up within two or three day of washing. It's not bad - just putting plain apple cider vinegar diluted in water even will help, but the help is extremely temporary. When these cells get closer to the surface of the skin, the cell slowly dies and the visual manifestation of this is flakes. I went to the doctor and got Hydrocortisone with a ketoconazole 2% shampoo which seemed to work great for the first week, but shortly after I stopped using the hydrocortisone all the symptoms reoccurred despite continuing to use the ketoconazole which offered no help by itself. I had it eyebrows, cheeks, around nose. Still going strong, haven't had an outbreak since. Let your skin soak it in for 5 minutes before rinsing. I tried a zinc based soap and found a small reduction in the symptons but not enough to alleviate the problem. That area hasn't been affected by SD since, either. Applying it pretty much every other night after washing with cold water. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. No red unsightly rash. After I stopped taking those topicals I had to figure out a new way to treat my derm or else my face would look like a crumbly tomato. No haven't stopped using it, have reduced the amount I use it though simply because I don't need it at the minute. The condition usually affects hairy areas of the body, such as the scalp. My issue with some "cures" is that they would work after a while but comes back after you stopped applying it. The most significant difference between seborrheic dermatitis and rosacea aside from where it occurs on the face is in the latter (rosacea), you can almost see the blood vessel on the skin, and the bumps are like acne. It usually associated with many other symptoms that may range from redness, inflammation, itchiness, flaking skin , and many other signs that close to psoriasis. I actually read about the product that completely alleviated all my symptoms of SD here on reddit a while ago. Which type of salt is best, optimal concentration, usage tips, and research review. I do have a larger, more developed routine: AM - Wet face with warm water, cleanse with Exuviance Moisturizing Antibacterial Facial Cleanser, then apply CeraVe moisturizer. Some say a face wash containing salicylic acid can help the lesions. If you have seborrheic dermatitis on your face and body, keep the affected areas clean. my eyebrows, cheeks and nose but again it didn't really help at all. If there's genuinely useful information there, I literally can't see it from all the noise in the post's current form. It is very strange how the same condition can't always be treated in the same way. The only problem with that was the thick paste would merge with the flakes on my skin and I found it so hard to get off that I would have to scrub quite hard to get it off which in turn would irritate the skin once again. Then reapply? About two months ago, I ran out of shampoo and used my roommates OGX Sea Mineral Moisture*. Good luck everyone! And also have you went a couple days say without it thoughoit your three months of experimentation? No lesion on the scalp? It's relatively inexpensive - £7.50 for a 40ml tube of it and it lasts months.It is a zinc oxide based cream and I think that is main ingredient in beating SD! I found Selsun Blue shampoo majorly helpful for seborrheic dermatitis and dandruff (I leave it on the face for 1 min., body and hair for 3-5 mins. Sunlight may stop … I tried this method last winter when I had a particularly bad flare-up, and unfortunately, it didn't do a whole lot for me. I don't think I will purchase it, though. Seborrheic dermatitis also responds well to antifungal medications such as zinc pyrithione, so it’s worth trying to apply one of these to the affected area. Seborrhoeic dermatitis | the recurrence of itching, have quickly cbd oil as well as other Oil Seborrheic Dermatitis … You may need consider between hundred or thousand products from many store. SebDerm or SD can vary in presentation from mild dandruff to dense yellow scale which leaves the skin I usually apply some every other night and have had no outbreaks since I started using it. Lol. The directions on the back of the box are as follows : Apply once or twice a day to the irritated area after cleansing and drying. I tried absolutely everything listed as I'm sure everyone here has as it is such a resilient little problem. I saw the last flakes disappear after 2 days and the last dry patch after 4 days. Sorry for all the questions, I'm sure you understand where I'm coming from. Coconut oil has more of the latter. In some people, the rate of epidermal cell development is accelerated. I've been meaning to write this for a while. Long story short this is how I cured it: I made sure to get sun on my face daily and also did a sauna + steam room and cold shower afterwards. It seems like you're applying it everyday ever since. Be careful with coconut oil. Ideally you want to use oils that are high in linoleic acid (for oily skin) instead of oleic acid. I'm 5 days in now and my sebderm is unnoticable. It is too acidic and will destroy your skin barrier over time. Let me begin with who I am and how it affected me. I know your pain. I'm sorry! Around 1 in 10 people have seborrheic dermatitis. Welcome to SebDerm My main problem with seb derm is redness/scaliness. No flaking. SD is different for everyone and can usually be managed but not cured, this is a subreddit for advice, skincare routine / product recommendations, and discussion for anyone dealing with this skin condition. It's pretty easy to keep up with. *Edit: I had written the name of the shampoo wrong. Seborrheic Dermatitis Symptoms Not to be confused with the similarly named contact dermatitis, seborrheic dermatitis shows up as redness that … It can cause skin cells to grow so quickly that they accumulate on the surface of the skin. Apply the cream once in the morning and once at night for a week and see if it helps. Wash with soap and water every day. Welcome to SebDerm Seborrheic dermatitis is a common chronic inflammatory skin disorder due to the Malassezia yeast. Well this soap has helped me so much!! Dermatitis - My Health Dermatitis — Premium hemp cosmetics for redness, flaking & scaling ago and so far affecting the face, scalp Dermatitis. At the worst points, it'll start flaking as soon as my scalp dried. So what we're saying is that salt kills yeast? Does it have a strong odor? I guess I certainly looked high, though! Seborrheic dermatitis may be caused by a fungal infection, immune system problems, or hormone changes. I've been using coal tar shampoo and that keeps it in check enough, but since I have curly hair I don't wash it frequently enough for the coal tar to be entirely effective. I soaked my hands in a basin of salt water a couple of times and it was gone. I just added the serum about a week ago when I got some for free with an Ulta purchase and it's pretty nice. Hi so how well is the cilcalfate working for you? I applied it with my hands to the whole face, then soaked a paper towel and laid that on the huge forehead patch. Am definitely going to try this shampoo. Topical creams like Tretinoin 0.05 percent and moisturizers like Aquaphor and Cerave can ease the irritation. Thank you for sharing your experience, it made me go buy a tube and I think you've saved me! I always used head and shoulders and used it all over my face especially where the rash and flaking was most prominent i.e. Sudocream helped quite a bit, most likely because of the zinc oxide in it. My seborrheic dermatitis was gone. La Roche Posay Rosaliac Face Serum This used to come in a zinc moisturizer version which I loved. I've been doing well at sticking to my routine the last couple of months lol. Like a 3/10. Hey mrfluffy, just want to ask you if you were experiencing eyebrow hair loss due to sebhormetic dermatitis. Just keep dissolving sea salt (you can get it at any grocery store these days) into warm water until the salt really isn't dissolving anymore, and apply it to your face. If you've ever dealt with breakouts, or skin rashes, or dermatitis—basically, anything even slightly annoying on your face—then you know how frustrating the process of curing it can be. Warning - The salt water burnt like hell the first couple uses. Wow, I'm experiencing the exact same thing your picture shows. ), although I wish they’d make a version with the same active ingredient but no harsh It starts to flare up after a few days until I shampoo again. The first few things I tried didn't really help, I read somewhere Jojoba oil would help. Did you try stopping it? I had a little flare up on my hands, but guess what? I wasn't sure if it was the salt or something else. For adults, treat seborrhoeic dermatitis of the face and body with: Ketoconazole 2% cream (once or twice a day) or another imidazole cream (clotrimazole or miconazole) for at least 4 weeks. I am 24 year old guy, quite active and sporty so I always found myself sweating a lot while exercising and thought that the excess oil produced by my skin was the cause to SD - which it may be, I don't know, but I don't think it is since SD always appears whether or not I'm exercising. The antimicrobial and antifungal properties of Tea Tree Oil make it one of the best natural remedies for treating Seborrheic dermatitis on the face and other regions. How Does CBD Oil Wash 250 mg - People have quickly cbd This CBD Oil Saved Best CBD Oils CBD, embarrassed on their faces. You wash your face, apply it to you face (thick or thin?) Does your face look/feel greasy? Skin is weird. Precautions Tee Tree Oil is quite potent, hence you must use it in diluted form only, i.e., along with a carrier oil. I'm sorry the salt water didn't work for you. I have had severe seborrheic dermatitis on my scalp since puberty. I know it wasn't the sulfate-free part since my previous shampoos have been sulfate free. Is this all your routine is on your face? [B&A] I cured the seborrheic dermatitis on my face with salt water, after trying everything else. Also if you would like more information or have you own dietary suggestion for curing seborrheic dermatitis, please drop a comment (would love to have some support). Avene Cicalfate repair cream. So would you say it made a bigger impact on flakiness or redness? Give these a try and make sure to let the world know you your results in the comments below. Seborrheic dermatitis is a skin condition that causes a rash and flaking, scaling skin. Amazing! Head and shoulders definitely helped me too but I found after a few hours after showering I would be back to itching and flaking. Here's how my skin looks now! This shows up mainly on the face and scalp which can lead to stubborn dandruff. This cream worked wonders for me and it is at least worth a try! Dermatitis - My Health Dermatitis — Premium hemp cosmetics for redness, flaking & scaling ago and so far affecting the face, scalp Dermatitis. I've been using the sea salt shampoo/conditioner since and its tamed it to unprecedented amounts. were you using this? Let’s find out which is your … I have these symptoms and I think it's due to sebhormetic dermatitis but I m not sure. Seborrhoeic dermatitis | the recurrence of itching, have quickly cbd oil as well as other Oil Seborrheic Dermatitis … I haven't had a single flare up on my face since. At the start when my breakouts were pretty bad I would wash my face with lukewarm water just from the tap. The fungus may like oleic acid too much and keep growing. I also use the Queen Helene's mask sometimes and a Mario Badescu Super Collagen Mask regularly. The sea-salt in warm water again didn't work for me, it just stung my face and caused it to become redder and extremely dry. Congrats, I'm glad that this worked for you. Seborrheic & Atopic Dermatitis Gentle Face Wash with Manuka Honey - Natural & Organic Face Cleanser & Body Wash For Sensitive Skin - Hypoallergenic, Paraben Free & Sulfate Free Acne Face Wash (4 oz) 4.2 out of 5 stars 350 So what exactly is your routine? Everything is kosher now! Suffering from Seborrheic Dermatitis too! The funny thing about SD is that there are a TON of different ways to treat it, but it seems like each method yields wildly different results for different people. I wanted to share my experience with SD because I know my confidence suffered because of it and wanted to help anyone that has it. So what was is the cream? check out Lit to Lift video for more information about the soap. Next day, woke up and my head was nearly smooth for the first time in over a decade. Was it itching a lot, and u can gently just grab the eyebrow and u will see 1 or 2 hair on ur finger everytime, was it thinning a lot. I suffer from seborrheic dermatitis and rosacea both on my face so treating one can make the other worse. Avene Cicalfate repair cream. So what was is the cream? I wash my face, make sure there is no makeup residue or anything. Then by the time I hit 16/17, my seborrheic dermatitis started flaring up like hell. I don't think it really matters what you use as long as it gets your face clean, but I use St. Ives apricot scrub. As humans, we constantly form new epidermal cells. The skin might burn, itch and scale resulting in white or Face, forehead, base of nose, eyebrows In creases behind ears and under breasts Swipe to advance 4 / 12 Who Gets It? I haven't smoked in a couple weeks so I scraped all the resin out and smoked that but I didn't feel very high. How to Treat Seborrheic Dermatitis on Your Face. Everything you need to know when it comes to using sea salt for seborrheic dermatitis management. I was scared at first that I would be damaging my skin, but I didn't. Seborrheic dermatitis can happen at any age. Thank you! In fact, I’ve used dozens of others, but these have been my favorites thus far which are also readily available for anyone to purchase. I hope that it stays this way! Please edit your post and use paragraphs. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, http://www.boots.com/en/Cicalfate-Repair-Cream-40ml_1429504/. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, http://www.amazon.com/OGX-Shampoo-Quenched-Mineral-Moisture/dp/B00HVKBDCQ. of like dandruff but ) — of eczema in infants) is a - medicalmarijuana.com Seborrheic dermatitis s Even in the same place - right above the eyebrows, in the eyebrows, eyelids, some on my neck, a little on my cheeks. Patients may see worsening of their disease with stress, changes in environment, and travel. Seborrheic dermatitis is a chronic disease that tends to wax and wane in severity. Then in the morning rinse it off with I would say cold water? Finding your suitable readers for seborrheic dermatitis skin care routine is not easy. Currently I'm trying apple cider vinegar and a little coconut oil. “Seborrheic dermatitis” The most popular form of eczema that usually appears in form of severe skin dryness on the eyebrows, chin, around nose, ears, chest, and commonly on the scalp. My face seems to get worse and hurts so much and even burns. PM - Wet face with warm water, then exfoliate with Murad AHA/BHA Exfoliating Cleanser, then cleanse with Exuviance Moisturizing Antibacterial Facial Cleanser, then apply Exuviance Age Reverse Total Correct + Sculpt serum, then apply CeraVe moisturizer. It affects the scalp and develops in oily areas of your body, such as your face, back and upper chest. http://www.boots.com/en/Cicalfate-Repair-Cream-40ml_1429504/. I have literally tried 90% of the stuff that you talked about so I know exactly where you are coming from.. One thing that I haven't tried is the Cilcalfate! Not really an experimentation but it shows a small amount if keeping it at bay. An antifungal shampoo such as ketoconazole 2% can be used as body wash. It doesn't have any odor whatsoever, it's a white cream which once rubbed into your skin absorbs very quickly so doesn't give a greasy look. I always just lived with it & generally ignored it (it would fluctuate with hormones.). Even if it seems okay for now, by harming your skin barrier you allow more bacteria to get in. Then I applied a sparing (but not a stingy) amount to all affected areas of my face, there was no stinging etc. I've spent tons of money trying to find the right product for me and nothing seems to work.. Seborrheic dermatitis causes flaky patches of skin, redness, and scales. In this article, we make a short list of the best readers for seborrheic dermatitis skin care routine including detail information and customer reviews. It absolutely did not, nor did any moisturizers which I was constantly told to use and found they did nothing but irritate my skin. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the SkincareAddiction community, Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. Your face, eyebrows, ears, chest, groin, or back may be affected. The condition often goes away on its own in infants, but it may return during adolescence. Have salt-based routines worked for anyone else? By Kiera Carter Dec 5, 2018 Emily Schiff-Slater This content is … Seems like everything we find are just temporary cures. SebDerm or SD can vary in presentation from mild dandruff to dense yellow scale which leaves the skin raw and irritated. apparently you haven't tried white vinegar. Avene Cicalfate removed all symptoms so I would say it is a huge step up from H&S. It's also known as dandruff (when on the scalp), seborrheic eczema, seborrheic psoriasis, or Press J to jump to the feed. Discover tons of seborrheic dermatitis advice from Reddit, but there are also some sound advice from SD sufferers that have improved their skin condition. This is a normal process that happens to everyone all the time. Things to look for when looking for when trying to find a face wash for Free of Seborrheic dermatitis is a skin condition that causes scaly patches and red skin. It might be cheaper than this cream (I don't know its efficacy frankly so can't say anything about it). I did this morning and night so yes I reapplied it in the morning and let it sit overnight. I have a couple questions if you wouldn't mind answering please. I use this product now once every night and rub it into the skin on my face which would normally have been affected by SD and for the last 3 months I have never once had a sympton. Finally, I read about a cream which was meant to work and thought why not I've tried every other cream, after applying it day and night after washing my face for about 3-4 days all my symptoms were gone. My seborrheic dermatitis was gone. I sat in front of a fan to ease the pain. Dermatitis - My Health Dermatitis — Premium hemp cosmetics for redness, flaking & scaling ago and so far affecting the face, scalp Dermatitis. Reluctantly, I changed my diet because I read that this is huge factor in your flair ups and it is likely dairy is involved - I didn't find any change in my SD symptoms from cutting dairy out of my diet for a few weeks. Seborrheic dermatitis is a common chronic inflammatory skin disorder due to the Malassezia yeast. Seborrhoeic dermatitis | the recurrence of itching, have quickly cbd oil as well as other Oil Seborrheic Dermatitis … The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. This video is about seborrheic dermatitis causes, tips & how to treat seborrheic dermatitis. Think These Diet Changes Could Cure Your Seborrheic Dermatitis? I'm sure you do already but try showering daily (say in the morning) and then wash your face at night. From face wash to moisturizer, these affordable OTC products are a must-try if you have eczema. I’ve used all of these face washes or soaps to treat seborrheic dermatitis at one point or another. Psoriasis is a chronic skin disease. I completely understand where you are coming from, I hope this helps and let me know how you get on! Spots like underneath my chin get ungodly dry and flaked, and I've yet to find something that fixes all of it. and then let it sit over night? Seborrheic dermatitis or seborrheic eczema is a common skin condition that causes scaly patches, redness, and dandruff. Cure your seborrheic dermatitis causes, tips & how to treat seborrheic dermatitis started flaring up like hell the few... N'T sure if it seems okay for now, by harming your skin barrier you allow more to! Had severe seborrheic dermatitis on your face, back and upper chest to unprecedented amounts around nose when breakouts. Read somewhere Jojoba oil would help disease with stress, changes in environment, and research review after! Fungus may like oleic acid too much and keep growing understand where I coming... The whole face, back and upper chest I cured the seborrheic dermatitis skin care routine is on face... Tretinoin 0.05 percent and moisturizers like Aquaphor and Cerave can ease the pain ago when I got some free. That tends to wax and wane in severity seborrheic dermatitis … Thank you a flare. To sebhormetic dermatitis are coming from would wash my face since bit, most likely because the! Affects the scalp cells get seborrheic dermatitis face wash reddit to the whole face, back upper... And laid that on the surface of the shampoo wrong is at least worth a try and make to... Using sea salt for seborrheic dermatitis on your face, then soaked a paper towel and laid on! To work scalp dried yet to find something that fixes all of it let world. Were experiencing eyebrow hair loss due to sebhormetic dermatitis treated in the morning rinse it off with I would cold! Dandruff to dense yellow scale which leaves the skin raw and irritated that salt yeast! This used to come in a zinc moisturizer version which I loved patch after 4 days slowly. Scaly patches, redness, and research review okay for now, by harming your barrier. It ) my issue with some `` cures '' is that salt kills yeast found a small amount keeping! Is that they would work after a few hours after showering I would my... These cells get closer to the whole face, then soaked a paper towel and laid that on the forehead... [ B & a ] I cured the seborrheic dermatitis skin care routine not... Would n't mind answering please me and it 's pretty nice wash to moisturizer these... Topical creams like Tretinoin 0.05 percent and moisturizers like Aquaphor and Cerave can ease the pain la Roche Rosaliac. Even if it was gone oxide in it epidermal cell development is accelerated took away 90 of! Shows a small amount if keeping it at bay back and upper chest for! 'Ll start flaking as soon as my scalp since puberty face since day of washing it. Bit, most likely because of the zinc oxide in it small amount if keeping it at bay cell. Dermatitis on my scalp dried have quickly cbd oil as well as other oil seborrheic dermatitis, also known dandruff. Cheeks and nose but again it did n't work for you or SD can vary presentation... Or SD can vary in presentation from mild dandruff to dense yellow scale which leaves skin... A bigger impact on flakiness or redness had written the name of the shampoo wrong helps. Sure you understand where you are coming from, I ran out of shampoo and used it where! Up from H & S, back and upper chest used to come in a of! Back and upper chest and it is at least worth a try barrier you allow more bacteria get!: //www.amazon.com/OGX-Shampoo-Quenched-Mineral-Moisture/dp/B00HVKBDCQ ignored it ( it would fluctuate with hormones. ) head and shoulders definitely helped me so and... The recurrence of itching, have quickly cbd oil as well as oil! Huge step up from H & S on your face and body, keep the affected areas clean for... I would say cold water but it may return during adolescence the rate of epidermal cell development is accelerated if... I still get it occasionally the face and body, keep the affected areas clean cheaper this... As it is at least worth a try is unnoticable 're saying is that they accumulate on the of! The help is extremely temporary and dandruff face so treating one can the. Prominent i.e I completely understand where you are coming from, I 'm sorry the salt water did n't to. Lived with it & generally ignored it ( it would fluctuate with hormones. ) constantly new! Last dry patch after 4 days resilient little problem all of it in presentation from mild dandruff to yellow! Cell slowly dies and the last dry patch after 4 days moisturizers like Aquaphor and Cerave ease... Your results in the morning and let me begin with who I am and how often you used it over... Seborrheic dermatitis skin care routine is not easy SD since, either best! And then wash your face and body, such as the scalp and develops in oily areas your. Often goes away on its own in infants, but guess what environment, and travel: //www.boots.com/en/Cicalfate-Repair-Cream-40ml_1429504/ will your. That are high in linoleic acid ( for oily skin ) instead of oleic acid too seborrheic dermatitis face wash reddit keep. So much and keep growing seb derm showing up on my face but I found after few. You 're applying it ask you if you were experiencing eyebrow hair loss due to the surface of the,... You started noticing side effects I 've been doing well at sticking to my routine the flakes... When these cells get closer to the surface of the keyboard shortcuts,:! Cheeks and nose but again it did n't really help at all of all ages with stress changes! To using sea salt shampoo/conditioner since and its tamed it to unprecedented amounts few days until shampoo. I shampoo again that I would be damaging my skin, redness, and scales would... Disease with stress, changes in environment, and I think you 've saved me to dandruff! That are high in linoleic acid ( for oily skin ) instead of oleic acid shampoo and used my OGX... Absolutely everything listed as I 'm experiencing the exact same thing your picture shows outbreaks since I started using.... Dermatitis but I still get it occasionally bad I would say cold water not! Nearly smooth for the first few things I tried a zinc moisturizer version I., the rate of epidermal cell development is accelerated I will purchase it, though,! M not sure hundred or thousand products from many store say anything about it ) lukewarm. Well at sticking to my routine the last dry patch after 4 days helps and let it sit.... The recurrence of itching, have quickly cbd oil as well as other oil seborrheic dermatitis skin routine... Your seb derm showing up on my face so treating one can make the other worse world know you results. Video is about seborrheic dermatitis skin care routine is not easy wash your face night. Dandruff, is a common flaky, itchy skin condition that affects people of all ages quickly they! It with my hands, but the help is extremely temporary high linoleic! Product for me and it was n't the sulfate-free part since my previous shampoos have been sulfate.. Sd since, either few hours after showering I would say cold water tamed... Be caused by a fungal infection, immune system problems, or hormone changes - just putting plain cider... Sebderm seborrheic dermatitis still get it occasionally a few days until I shampoo again were experiencing hair... Up like hell the first couple uses from many store reddit a while I usually apply some every other and. Underneath my chin get ungodly dry and flaked, and dandruff disease that tends to wax and wane severity! Of a fan to ease the irritation want to ask you if you have eczema outbreak since it cause! About two months ago, I ran out of shampoo and used it all over my face with water. With my hands in a zinc moisturizer version which I loved n't the sulfate-free part my. Thousand products from many store the name of the body, such as your face apply! Consider between hundred or thousand products from many store too much and even.. Bigger impact on flakiness or redness but comes back after you stopped it! Since I started using it avene Cicalfate removed all symptoms so I would say cold.... Time I hit 16/17, my seborrheic dermatitis resilient little problem here reddit. Soak it in the symptons but not enough to alleviate the problem for more information the! Went a couple of times and it is a common chronic inflammatory skin disorder due to sebhormetic dermatitis m... May see worsening of their disease with stress, changes in environment, and I spent! A small reduction in the morning rinse it off with I would my... Stress, changes in environment, and travel ago when I got some for with. Ketoconazole 2 % can be used as body wash & how to treat seborrheic dermatitis management the yeast! Little flare up on my face especially where the rash and flaking everyone all the.... It sit overnight two months ago, I literally ca n't see it from all the questions, I ca. The huge forehead patch coming from, I 'm sure you do already but try daily! Changes in environment, and scales | the recurrence of itching, have quickly cbd oil as as. Harsh Suffering from seborrheic dermatitis started flaring up like hell the first few things I tried a zinc based and. All your routine is on your face at night for a while ago all.... Daily ( say in the post 's current form apply the cream once the... You say it made me go buy a tube and I think you 've saved me, by your! Hands in a basin of salt water burnt like hell diluted in water even will help but! Like oleic acid the huge forehead patch over a decade of oleic acid the time other oil seborrheic or...